Topic: FREE: Hearth & Haven

This topic has 11 voices, contains 24 replies, and was last updated by Singed 160 days ago.

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November 29, 2011 at 5:22 am #10464
Glossen Player	I just thought I’d share this with the Dawn-tide Community. If Dawntide “does” decide to make their incomplete Sandbox Game have a “price” on it in the future and you don’t feel this is fair and want to still create everything in your world: TRY: http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/ FEATURES: You start off as nobody. You create the entire world around you for FREE, FREE, FREE. A 3D FREE version is coming out soon too!
November 29, 2011 at 5:34 pm #10472
Fossil Player	Are you comparing this game to Haven and Hearth? H&H looks like something my son would play on his Nintendo DS. I am not knocking it, just saying there is no comparison to be made. Dawntide’s business model has already been announced so don’t think there is much more for them to decide in that regard. A free download with a subscription. There was also talk of a lifetime sub, a onetime payment option. Lifetime sub is what I am going for as soon as it is available. As for being DT being incomplete, well it’s in beta. Even then MMOs generally are never complete. Look at the big dogs, WoW and EVE both continue to evolve. Show me a complete MMO and I’ll show you one that’s dead :) If you are talking about polish, I can do with some bugs if the overall gameplay is good and the game is improving (incomplete).
November 30, 2011 at 1:07 am #10488
Glossen Player	Yoda has spoken. and Yoda now must be silent so he doesn’t lose that money he will so gladly part with when the release happens. lol.
November 30, 2011 at 2:30 am #10492
Rari Developer	Glossen, we’ve always allowed people to share free game links on our forums. We’re totally cool with that, we’re gamers too and we totally get that you want to share. The backhanded comments in the OP were totally not necessary though. Dawntide is not ready for release, it is still in development. We’re working on producing the best open sandbox game we can, and when we do officially release it there will be a subscription fee. We’ve been totally open and honest about this, and we’ve invited people play for free and to help us make the game better during development. That is all there is to it so I’m not really sure what’s up with the attitude – totally not necessary!
November 30, 2011 at 2:47 am #10493
Fossil Player	Sounds like you are really concerned about my $12 a month. Trust me, I will be ok. Oh and free hardly ever = good.
November 30, 2011 at 6:26 am #10496
Glossen Player	Ok, ok. Back off kindly everyone. You win and here is a free cupcake. Capitalism, hmff.
November 30, 2011 at 4:08 pm #10503
Bill Developer	Capitalism, hmff! “Free” games are making more money than traditional subscription based games (with the exception of WoW), that’s why they’re so popular. The F2P model relies on the sale of game-altering or enhancing virtual products, whether it’s an XP boost, some equipment or a mount – it’s making more money for games like LOTRO and RoM than a subscription model can. However, for us and essentially any other developer striving to create a player-driven “sandbox” world, the F2P micro-transaction focused model does not work, so our best option is to target a very competitively priced subscription, with options for lifetime subscriptions and the like thrown in. Or you know, we could sell boats and houses on the website and call our game “free”.
November 30, 2011 at 4:54 pm #10504
GMPathy GameMaster	Other options could include, selling skill points, unlocking recipes or even charging for character slots. There are ways to gain revenue within a sandbox game, but NONE benefit the player. This discusion has raised its head many times throughout the beta, and a decision has been made that serves both the player and the game.
November 30, 2011 at 6:03 pm #10505
Esquire Player	Bill, I believe your exactly correct. STO is now moving from a 15 per/month sub model to a F2P model and there is a mass exodus of existing players rivaled only by the exodus that took place over SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) NGE. They completly changed the economy to direct players to their store and made it so blatant that no1 can get by it, not free players and not even players who will remain subed. The playerbased has decreased since the announcement and most of these changes are not even live yet. Sandboxes are dependant on playerbased economys and I don’t believe there is no way possible for a playerbased economy to be developed that will direct players to a store to maintain the development company. Players are NEVER going to like a Pay TO Win ideal that almost certainly has to come up with a F2P model either. Players, imagine some1 heading to the “store” and matching your level of DPS/tanking in PVP that took you years to get, just mearly by spending $100.00 in their store to fully see what I mean. And before some1 says that all you put in the store is “fluff”, remember that a development company needs to survive in a F2P model and that means developing pixels (and stats) that some1 will actualy buy. I tryed Entropia Universe and said many a time that I would pay 15 a month but have not stayed due to the fact of “buy your bullets”. I would jump at the chance to buy a Lifetime sub to Dawntide. I bought 1 for STO. But, you devs need to really think that one out also. Your company may get a small windfall at the start but after that, Lifetimers can be considered a “drag” player hanging around eating up good bandwidth. The meat and potatoes are going to come from a long-term budget and that budget will probably not include lifetimers. Maybe a select small number of Lifetimes could be sold for the windfall at the start but I don’t believe I would offer these for any longterm. I own and operate a business also. Something to think about.
November 30, 2011 at 7:58 pm #10509
TheInternetMan Player	The arguments provided are full of strawmans and pigeon hole a concept into some very specific implementations which are not required to run a microtransaction based MMO. It comes off as extremely ignorant to use very specific negative traits to over embellish what is the reality of the microtransaction model. A microtransaction model does not have to provide statistical advantages A microtransaction mdoel does not have to modify PvP balance Just because your minds are too weak (more likely too biased) to think of a good microtransaction model, does not mean the model is flawed in any way, shape or form. It’s really pathetic I have to argue my case on this forum when some of the lesser team members working on dawntide are clearly biased. It’s honestly a waste of my time. I could tell you the sky is blue and you would argue it’s purple just because you love purple so much there is no reason to believe the truth. It’s never enough to just say “This concept doesn’t work” without providing any sort of logic other than “Here is the most horrid possible implementation of this system so all implementations of this system must be horrid” which is exactly what I’ve seen so far by everyone on the Dawntide dev team and the vocal minority community. The following things can be easily monetized with or without a traditional subscription model: 1.) Race/appearance changes 2.) Non-combat pets 3.) Cosmetic building recipes (Fences, wells, flags for bastions, etc.) 4.) Cosmetic armor (capes, hats, etc. with no stats) 5.) A wardrobe system (being able to change your character’s appearance with gear underneath) 6.) Standards (flags players can carry representing their faction) 7.) Skill resets 8.) Skins (textures) for existing armor, buildings, and watercraft 9.) ..and much more, if you really want more examples I’ll continue to provide them! The main problem is that the dev team is full of Shards of Dalaya purists who want 30 players in their elitist subgroup playing their hipster, indie, niche game with 5000 half-assed features. When they could have 5000 people and a great game experience and a ton of profit in their pockets. You do realize that Xsyon runs on almost the exact same model as Dawntide will be right? You do know that game is far more polished, has customizable buildings, and terraforming right? You do know they jump for joy when they get 50 people online, right? The game is dead and it’s better than this one and it runs on the same model. WAKE THE HELL UP WAI. You’re headed for a car crash and meanwhile the only thing I’m hearing is “Don’t worry about it, we know what we’re doing, we modded Everquest” What does Dawntide provide that Xsyon, Darkfall, and Mortal don’t? Why should anyone play your game? Has that question ever been asked? This reply was modified 170 days ago by TheInternetMan. This reply was modified 170 days ago by TheInternetMan.
November 30, 2011 at 8:43 pm #10519
Esquire Player	TIN, You may indeed like F2P models but that does not mean that all have to. A sandbox MMO will tend to draw an older crowd than a story based themepark MMO. The “kids” who like instant gratification will not be in this game for very long, either F2P or sub model. P2W will be implimented at ANY F2P game. Fluff does not sell. They tried this model over in STO before the F2P launch and no1 bought the stuff. How many uniforms does 1 toon need? How many other “skins” of a ship do you need? Then, slowly, what the devs called +1 ships were introduced to the C-Store. They were clearly more powerful and most all of the hardcore PVPers bought at least 1. I bought 1 myself. Then we started seeing more P2W introduced into the store. Law of supply and demand coming here. Then, with F2P coming, the developers took away all the ingame methods of getting these +1 ships, and a boat-load of other things that subs enjoyed as perks and they are now becoming all store items. SWG tried this with TCG as a lottery. 1st mentions was there would be no P2W items included, only fluff. Then, the cards didn’t sell and buffs became a regular item in the “loot cards”. P2W was there also due to nothing more than it sold. This ended up, with so many buffs being put in via TCG, that I could run my jedi with a FULL 7 rows of buffs. 7 X 9 buffs going at once. Nothing more than “god mode” for 1.3 minutes. I have the screens to prove it. Imagine what that did to PVP balance. F2P is not a pot of gold for a development co, guaranteed. Lego is now closing after F2P and there will be many more in the very near future. The existing playerbase over at STO is now looking for it over there atm. F2Pers tend to gravitate from 1 shiney to the next. They are not invested. They can move on with no problems. From my experiences, some of these can be a definate determent to a community. “I pwnd joooo” is one of the catch phrases that I seem to see most often. Do you want to play a game with that in it for any lenght of time? I do not believe any1 here is “biased” or “weak minded” as you state, but has tried or seen the model 1st hand and does not believe it works, for the long term, or would work with a game like this. You can believe what you believe. To me, I would think that a good decision is being made here and I own, operate, and run a international firm, myself. This reply was modified 170 days ago by Esquire. This reply was modified 170 days ago by Esquire.
November 30, 2011 at 11:58 pm #10526
Fossil Player	@TheInternetMan You sound really militant about getting free stuff. Is this Occupy Dawntide now? And you were saying something about strawman argument?… A few dollars a month for a few hours a night of entertainment is a great deal. I pay more for Netflix and only use it a few hours a month. I am content knowing I am not being nickel and dimed by a cash shop to keep up with everyone else. Having to buying XP bonus packs and bank slots is just silly. And what good is a large player base of freeloaders? I have never been involved in MMO market research but I do know there are a bunch of free MMO’s but not one do I care to play. My hope is that WAI puts my subscription to good use by adding content and that that they never need to go pay to win.
December 3, 2011 at 12:05 am #10562
TinkerTot Player	haven and hearth is fun though, and is a true sandbox. Its a cute little game that offers lots content. While it looks old or “Nintindoish” the game is actually very well drawn. And while you guys made you point about F2P games with “hidden” costs I have found none there, so thats kinda off topic.
December 3, 2011 at 12:30 am #10564
TinkerTot Player	As to the off topic part all I can say is both methods are P2w. As for me my dad has, as i quote a very good friend, “Deep Pockets” so F2p with game changing stuff like buffs i can buy, or if its P2P i can still afford several accounts. Only way to make it completely fair is to charge nothing at all. kinda like Haven and Hearth. Or you can make all kinds of cute and pretty stuff that are only visual not buffs, and i’ll buy that because i really dont give a rat’s behind about combat. If i want that i’ll play Skyrim or Halo. This reply was modified 167 days ago by TinkerTot. This reply was modified 167 days ago by TinkerTot. This reply was modified 167 days ago by TinkerTot.
December 3, 2011 at 5:24 am #10571
Glossen Player	Well said: TinkerTot. I now play Haven & Hearth everyday and in less than 3 days I found an experienced player that decided to work with me and not against me. He could have easily just KILLED me right there in the forest but now we have a walled village, we share resources are completely loyal to our cause. This game is 1000000% FREE and I still have so many skills to gain, places to see, herbs to collect and everyday I am doing something new FREE of character. 2D or not or 3D or not; this game is FREE because (developers) have a passion for what they do and want a memorable experience for everyone. A FREE 3D version will be coming out soon and I KNOW it will be a HUGE success. It’s called Salem and Xyson, Dawtide and Darkfall won’t be a big deal anymore. PS: 1. The next youth generation actually prefer more games that are complex instead of Kitty games simply because their brains are wired to know what technology is. Basically the new toy on the block.