Topic: New Combat System.

This topic has 12 voices, contains 32 replies, and was last updated by Grimnir / NathanielHawk 116 days ago.

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January 2, 2012 at 3:14 am #11188
LordWiese Player	I hate to be the guy to bring this up, as we have many times in forums. I say the only thing stoping people from playing this game is the combat system, because thats all I ever hear from anyone. Two days ago I played on a mount and blade server with a group of guys who said they played dawntide for a few days, but the world of war craft style combat just put them off. At this point, I dont even have a clue what kind of combat system could be put in, its hard enough for the devs. A twitch combat system sucks the joy out of a game for those who suck at it, while what we have now just makes you want to shoot yourself in the foot. Is there any chance for a simple hack and slash action combat system, where there is manuel blocking and attacking. I think this would do well, since the movement speed ingame is perfect for such a thing, since its easy to move around, and if you would stay in one spot under this system, you die :) This reply was modified 137 days ago by LordWiese.
January 2, 2012 at 8:24 am #11191
Bastiat Player	I always thought Mount and Blade had a perfect combat system and it works well enough for online play. I played Pirates of the Burning Sea which had an awful combat system (twitch I guess it is called) and it is far too exploitable (the best strategy relies on “ping kiting” or basically running in circles and making someone lag out so they can’t hit you) and then mashing a bizarre and idiotic assortment of “skills”. I managed to do well at it because I had a good mentor, but otherwise, I dreaded going into avatar combat (as opposed to the game’s ship combat, which was fine). Ultimately, combat isn’t what makes or breaks a game for me, but if this really is going to be a full loot PvP game, I want a combat system that everyone can participate in fairly. I also think the days of turn-based combat, just like rail-shooters, are long gone and unacceptable as content in a game made in this decade.
January 2, 2012 at 9:03 am #11194
LordWiese Player	Mount and Blade style combat cant be done in this game, we asked the devs to do it already :) Anyways, that system would make people who suck at it rage quit, not good for the $$$ on the devs part.. A nice action hack and slash system is perfect, with manual blocking, and swinging, something simple, not like Mount and Blade. Well, Combat seems to be breaking this game, because thats the first thing most people try out.
January 2, 2012 at 10:24 am #11205
Bastiat Player	Hold up, I thought Mount and Blade was simple hack and slash. Mouse right/left/up/down and left click to attack, right click to defend. I thought it was the easiest combat system to master and very intuitive. Even couching the lance was easy enough after some practice (on manual, not auto).
January 2, 2012 at 5:15 pm #11211
rokisltuu Player	100% agreed basic combat system with mouse aiming and blocking by just clicking button would be all i need in this game :) Speaking about mount and blade combat system in this game would be hard to master for older players coz mount and blade warband blocking , chambering skill take’s alot of time to master and mastering isn’t just blocking few blocks it’s when you easily block almost all of them even tricky one’s i myself play mount and blade warband for 2 years and i hadn’t mastered it yet so well that I could easily slay anyone . if anyone meets me in game just say Hi :D name- RazorV This reply was modified 137 days ago by rokisltuu.
January 2, 2012 at 8:43 pm #11213
LordWiese Player	I play mount and blade, and i have not even got it down all the way..Mount and Blade is twitch combat btw. What I mean by action combat, with manual combat, is really many different moves, with one command for blocking and attacking. Its simple, fun, and entertaining. The movement spead ingame is almost perfect, might need to change it a little, but we would have to see. I really hope the devs consider this. RazorV Im Legolan on mount and blade if you play PW ;p This reply was modified 137 days ago by LordWiese.
January 2, 2012 at 8:50 pm #11215
Grimnir / NathanielHawk Player	I wouldn’t require more of the game either, I feel that if it had a mount&blade like of combat it would be extremely entertaining.
January 2, 2012 at 9:21 pm #11216
LordWiese Player	It could not have mount and blade combat all the way, its hard to do in a full scale mmo. What I mean is, it could not have all the custom moves with mouse movement. It might be able to handle a one command for attack, and one command for blocking. Its simple, fun, and with the movement system(this is a large part of my point) it would be fun, you could not stay in one place. hack and slash action :) nothing more needed :) This reply was modified 137 days ago by LordWiese.
January 4, 2012 at 4:26 pm #11264
LordWiese Player	bump, Divayith if you see this, I would like to get your thoughts on this. This reply was modified 135 days ago by LordWiese.
January 4, 2012 at 5:38 pm #11267
Danku Player	Could something where the results are split between personal action and stats/perks be workable? With twitch the best connection has the advantage but if that was tempered with a 50% predetermination from how you made and worked your character it could even it out. Conan (Player 1) Stat 19 strength, 16 dex, Perk Steroids, Ping 150 Legolas (Player 2) Stat 14 strength, 18 dex, Perk bow awesomeness, Ping 18 100% Twitch: They meet in combat and Legolas lags Conan out and wins by solid connection. 100% Character: Conan whips the nancy boy’s buttocks because he is muscled. Ping is irrelevant since what happens is stat driven and predetermined. Mix: Every other hit is predetermined by your character and the other half are by the player actions. Evenly matched? Or you set a fight pattern that is automatically triggered in the order you choose with some chance to alter/influence it during the fight for some improvement. I hope I am being clear in what I am trying to describe. It is just a quick idea, not anything I am willing to go to the ends of the Cage for.
January 4, 2012 at 6:32 pm #11270
GMPathy GameMaster	Even in your second example there is room to add in player action, in terms of positioning and movement. Give static players modifiers to accuracy. Advancing players bonus to dmg, penalty to accuracy. Retreating players penalty to dmg, penalty to accuracy, bonus to defence Height advantage small increase to dmg modifier Face to face alignment with oponent both have increased armour bonus Attacking at side of opponent, increase to dmg small penalty to accuracy Attacking rear of opponent increase to accuracy and increase to dmg. By using small modifiers based on movement and position you can alter the way combat works, straffing around an opponent may offer a better chance to do more damage but by moving you accuracy is penalised. The problem is that by adding this level of accuracy and detail to combat you are going to increase areas for lag in large scale combat. Lag will always be a factor, and minimising it is the BEST way to level the playing field between equally trained players. Adding new levels of complexity is sometimes counterproductive and results in undesirable affects.
January 4, 2012 at 7:38 pm #11277
Draconan Player	@Danku Ping will always be a factor in any PvP regardless of what you do unless it is turn based. The best and most common way of trying to help those with worse ping is to allow skills to be queued. Probably the only thing I liked about WoW when I tried it the other day was an option to set how far in advance you can queue a skill that came with a recommendation to make it equal to your average ping. @Pathy I like your suggestions and would love to see them implemented in the new system, particularly where shields are involved. It opens up strategies that give an advantage to those that not only strafe but strafe away from the shield arm ;) It would require collision to be on but I feel it should be on anyway :)
January 15, 2012 at 7:39 pm #11558
FaohsDal Player	Hello, I haven’t played this game yet, so I don’t want to comment beyond my experience. However, here are my thoughts on a good combat system. In general, there is one word that sums up my thoughts on the topic: dynamic. This is 2012. One dimensional swings, blocks, and static combat are non-starters. The idea is to make melee combat look and feel like a fighting game, and make ranged combat look and feel like a shooter (within some obvious limitations). Here are my specific thoughts. Melee Fundamentals. 1: Collision detection is extremely important. 2: Upon entering combat, characters should immediately face their opponents. The L/R keys cause the character to circle in the desired direction. The forward key cause the character to move toward the target; the back key does the opposite. Against multiple opponents, a player can choose which target to face by using the cursor. 3: There is a “break contact” key that allows the user to attempt to break contact with the target and run. 4: The melee attack system is simple. L-Mouse is an attack; R-Mouse is a defensive move. However there are numerous ways that the player can customize his attacks and defenses through the use of various skills. I’ll get to those in a second. 5: In my experience, a “charge” skill is extremely important to giving melee characters a fighting chance against ranged attackers. This skill causes the character to rush forward very quickly to close with the target, and perhaps has an attack added to the end. Ranged Fundamentals. 1: Targetting can work the same way as with melee, as described above, but it is less important. 2: The effectiveness of attacks should be a combination of player and character skill. By this I mean that the player must practice his aim to align his cursor to the target, however, the amount of damage dealt, effective range, and other attributes of the ranged attack are determined by a character’s skill and equipment. 3: Two words: zoom ability. 4: As with melee attacks, players should be able to customize their shooting. I’ll give an example below. Customization. 1: Skills should add specific customization possibilities to attacks. 2: Players choose the customized effect they want to use on a specific attack. 3: Example follows. (In the example, please forgive my ignorance of Dawntide’s skill system. However, I understand that the game is skill, not archetype, based. That is all that is really required for the system I describe below to work.) Example. 1: The skill-set of “Swords” contains a number of skills. 2: Most of the skills are passive. (e.g. Efficient Swinging reduces stamina used per swing by 5% per level.) 3: Some skills contain an active component. For example, “Sword Techniques” opens up an additional attack, and “Longsword Mastery” opens up a third attack, but only for Longswords. In order to obtain “Longsword Mastery,” one must have maxxed out “Sword Techniques.” 4: The additional attack skill causes a single mouse-click to become two quick succession swings instead of one, but each swing is only worth perhaps 75% of a single attack. The player can choose to implement the addional swing or not, but it should be generally advantageous to do so. (e.g. 75% + 75% is greater than the original 100%) 5: The player can learn attack modification skills. For example, the “Bash” skill, if added to one of the attacks above gives each swing a chance to stun the opponent (at a cost of damage) while the “Thrust” attack might knock the opponent back and slow him down (at a cost of speed and stamina usage). So, if a person maxxes out his “Swords” skill set and his modification skills, he could potentially link 2x Bashes and one Thrust into a single attack. 6: The modifiers have an impact on the animation of the attacks. 7: The possibilities and customization options are thus very high. Two swordsmen with identical skills can thus have very different from each other in combat style. Beyond that, all of this is done without a complicated hotkey system. The action of combat itself is still entirely mouse-key based. 8: Ranged-based attacks apply a modification system as well. 9: Different weapons have different bonuses to various modifiers. For example, Maces give bonuses to “Bash” modifiers while Spears give bonuses to “Thrust” modifiers. At any rate, those are my thoughts. -FD This reply was modified 124 days ago by FaohsDal. This reply was modified 124 days ago by FaohsDal.
January 15, 2012 at 8:12 pm #11561
dohwee Player	^ This would be the Perfect Sandbox MMORPG EVA!
January 16, 2012 at 6:44 am #11565
Elindor Player	dawntide’s system of balance and force and everything is similar to that of an old mud called — DragonRealms– Their system was targeted (hard to do manual targeting with text :) ) but the combat was VERY engaging in that it was a back and forth struggle like a boxing match – not just a trade of HP. It was something where if you started to get an advantage (balance, position, less wounds etc) you started getting better and better hits to land, etc…and if your enemy started getting an advantage….you’re in trouble. You might be getting glancing blows, then boom, something goes wrong, it gets better position/balance than you and suddenly its a strong blow to your arm and boom your even worse in balance then you struggle to run but you cant cause you’re so off balance/position and then WHAM…head’s off :( Anyhow there combat write up is here : http://www.play.net/dr/info/combat.asp The point is, Dawntide’s combat system is already seemingly sort of headed in this direction with the force/balance/power stuff….maybe read up on what Dragonrealms did. Give people combat MANEUVERS and MOVES they can do. Slice, swing, sweep, jab, thrust, etc. Charge, hangback, etc. These would all have different effects on your balance/position..and the enemies. One thing they did which is wise is making stamina/fatigue a real thing everyone deals with….so combat is about CHOICES and not spam. ps – and i agree, in a visual game like this, some movement should be required or encouraged in combat, so it isnt just a trade of hp. its very unrealistic to just stand there and often times for RP sake i wouldnt in games but people would just point out how if anything that was hurting me :( This reply was modified 123 days ago by Elindor. This reply was modified 123 days ago by Elindor. This reply was modified 123 days ago by Elindor. This reply was modified 123 days ago by Elindor. This reply was modified 123 days ago by Elindor.