Topic: That vile mechanic called PvP… - Dawntide

This topic has 11 voices, contains 28 replies, and was last updated by Washington44t 94 days ago.

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February 9, 2012 at 4:04 pm #12370
Quark Player	Don’t be so sure on that, Darkfall forums used to be a nice place. Until hell broke through, since the developers didn’t do anything at all. Now the forums is pretty much trolled as hell. I’m just stating that it’s much possible that people from the DF forums will convert to this forum. Not only talking about Darkfall, also every other hardcore PvP games is filled with trolls. etc. Eve Online, Ultima Online and Mortal Online. Trolls follow PvP games it’s actually a fact. Now, good luck maintaining the dawntide forums.
February 10, 2012 at 1:29 am #12374
Karetyr Player	If your aim was to convince me that PvP makes a game better, you’re not helping your argument much, Quark…
February 10, 2012 at 2:43 am #12375
Brennak Player	The reality is that some people treat the forums like they treat the games they play… and in this case it’s PvP, there is a reason they call the forums over there forumfall and I would recommend not participating unless you are interested in said PvP. =P This reply was modified 98 days ago by Brennak.
February 10, 2012 at 6:44 am #12377
GMPathy GameMaster	Brennak the reality is moderators can suspend your account on the forums, which also locks you out of the log in servers. People will always abuse any freedom you give them and test boundaries, but that is why we start with asking politely before they push too far :D It is also worth noting that regardless of the loot mechanics or the game design structure there will always be forum trolls. I have played MANY games, and am active on many game based forums and regardless of topic there is always people who think it is their devine right to speak their mind on a private forum. That being said moderation here has only been required on a handful of occasions in over two years, so there is still hope we can maintain some standards :D This reply was modified 98 days ago by GMPathy.
February 10, 2012 at 3:24 pm #12388
Quark Player	@Karetyr I’m not trying to convince you anything, if you can’t stand trolls, a PvP oriented game is not for you. @GMPathy do you’ve rights to suspend people because they’ve a negative and annoying attitude? Don’t think so.
February 10, 2012 at 3:32 pm #12389
Karetyr Player	I play plenty of games that involve player against player gameplay. To say that they all have large numbers of a**hole players seems a rather generalist statement to me, considering that I’ve found several where trashtalking is almost nonexistent and friendly banter is common. Douchebaggery is a function of the player, not the game.
February 10, 2012 at 3:59 pm #12390
Quark Player	@Karetyr maybe you can address some of the games?
February 10, 2012 at 4:21 pm #12391
Karetyr Player	Team Fortress 2 has little trashtalking, at least on the servers I play on. World of Tanks doesn’t appear to have much trashtalking. Tribes: Ascend doesn’t have much either, unless you count the in-game quick voice commands (e.g., “I’m the greatest!”) In the MMO space, Champions Online had a well-behaved PvP community, as does LotRO (the PvMP mechanic). For larger games, my impression with World of Warcraft and Star Wars Galaxies (Bloodfin being the exception) was that there was a loud but relatively small (30-40%?) portion of the PvPers that are annoying, with the majority being silent or friendly.
February 10, 2012 at 6:51 pm #12393
nohero Player	While I’m not defending Quark’s rudeness, it’s hard to defend Karetyr in this instance when the thread title is essentially picking a fight. Also, if the intention of the post is to find a game that is strictly PVM then it should not be a blatant attack of all things PVP. Blaming one side of the “balance” coin for the entirety of the problem is ridiculous, literally. Every PVPer can say balancing PVM has wrecked PVP in every game, no one wins this argument and while Quark took it to the next level, he didn’t start it. You can ask which games are PVM-only but making a thread to attack the concept of PVP as a whole in a game forum for a game that has already been announced as having a PVP element is just trolling for a fight. Trying to claim you’re “ok” with PVP but referring to it as “that vile mechanic” makes me think you weren’t completely thruthful and were simply trying to take the high ground after setting the trap. As for the topic at hand, all I have to say is that this is a sandbox mmo… by sheer definition of the term it implies that players will have freedom to make their own choices and play their own way. I simply believe that exploring a sandbox game in hopes that it’s littered with thempark elements is “barking up the wrong tree”. The real world is not balanced. Any game attempting to institute a realistic and healthy community can only succeed if they understand that people will not want to be the same. True balance is making every avatar the exact same in every situation. I personally hope that the devs do not attempt to balance skills for either PVM or PVP. Make them how they are and let the community decide how they use them. Players’ needs to be different but exactly the same at the same time makes no sense to me. If sword fighting is inferior to mace fighting in almost every way but I want to be a swordsman then I will. In fact, I will enjoy it more as it will be a less-explored skill set in the world. Too many people will fight to have sword fighting buffed or mace fighting nerfed… I say leave it be. People will still choose their path and be happy with it or they will choose another. Every mmo game I have ever heard of or played has bent their world to suit the players… as a refreshing twist, I’d like to see a harsh world that requires the PLAYER to adapt. Might not be the best business model but I think it would make it so much more fun. I also believe that there are at least a handful of other players out there like me who will hear about it and eventually try it. Whether Dawntide will be that game or not remains to be seen. What I wouldn’t hold my breath for, however, is that they completely scrap the entire PVP system during beta. What I can suggest is a large list of fantastic single-player RPGs that I have enjoyed over the years. When I’m not in the mood to have my gaming experience altered by other players (PVP) I simply sit down with my old classic consoles and enjoy a true PVM experience. Let me know if you’d like some suggestions for some obscure titles that might be up your alley as it seems to be what you’re in the market for at this time.
February 10, 2012 at 8:41 pm #12397
Brennak Player	@nohero you make a good point about the title of the thread which supports my proclamation that this thread is in fact a consensual forum PvP session between Quark and Karetyr. I do, however, disagree about your statement concerning balance. Balance is not to say that one character is as good as another, as that implies a categorical reference ie: that warrior can heal as good as the priest. I would instead suggest that its important to make sure each character is balanced in a way that makes its user base enjoy it’s inherent strengths AND challenges. The challenge is when the player becomes bored of said warrior and decides to roll a priest and gets upset when their priest isn’t a warrior.
February 11, 2012 at 4:34 am #12411
Karetyr Player	I’ll concede that my wording of the thread title was just plain bad. I was not intentionally “setting a trap,” to use nohero’s postulation. My comments regarding “balance” aren’t intended to imply that warriors need to heal as well as priests; just that certain combat strategies that work in PvE do not work in PvP (and vice versa), but MMO developers have a tendency to try and buff strategies for one gameplay style while simultaneously (and often unintentionally) nerfing something else in the other. If Dawntide’s developers can overcome that tendency somehow, I’ll be perfectly happy to have both PvE and PvP here. I just am rather jaded after playing far too many MMORPGs over the past ten years.
February 12, 2012 at 5:33 pm #12430
Washington44t Player	I get what you’re saying Karetyr, but I don’t think PvE balance will be a huge issue in this game because there won’t be instanced raids with a set number of people and a timer. As long as you can out-damage that bear that attacked you while you were mining in his cave, how much do you care if someone else could’ve killed it faster?
February 13, 2012 at 1:16 am #12433
Karetyr Player	That’s fine, then. I’ll shut up on this topic for the time being.
February 14, 2012 at 5:20 am #12450
Washington44t Player	On the contrary; I think the topic is WELL worth discussing. I even share your interest in keeping PKing to a minimum. It just seems to me that in a game without instance raids, the best way to keep the population of PKer’s reasonable is to SEVERLY limit the number of characters you can have on one account. One would be MY ideal–but of course I don’t expect that.

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